Collin: So, what is Simulationism, anyway?
Simulationism is a creative agenda wherein the point of play is to celebrate the source creative vision (be it one player's, the group's, or someone else's like J.R.R. Tolkien's or Star Trek's).
Significantly, "celebrating the source vision" is incompatible with "addressing a premise," because addressing a premise requires you to confront the source vision, not celebrate it.
Discussions of simulationism are historically problematic - a fact I'll note without further comment, thank you.
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VB of JCL's The Secret of Sim
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JCL go "I posted my take..."
... on The Forge. and it's funny, but I mentioned tha "celebrating the source" theory, although you'll see i have an entirely different idea of what Sim is (although it covers your definition as well.)
VB go "the prob I see..."
...Is that there's nothing in your idea of what sim is that precludes addressing premise consistently and reliably in play.
JCL go "there's nothing preventing premise from happening..."
... but *addressing* premise implies a goal outside of The Fiction itself. so, from a Sim point of view, you can talk about character motivations that's inside The Fiction,) but not about the moral message (which, as an interpretation of The Fiction, is outside The Fiction). this is why Sim-Nar hybrids can work, as long as everyone's OK with both agendas; players can consistently prioritize The Fiction over their personal goals for most of play, then suddenly switch to addressing Premise (preferably in specific kinds of situation.)
however, if the group is mixed, and some players don't want to place The Fiction subservient to addressing Premise, you wind up with dysfunction. it's very easy for this to happen *because* there's nothing to prevent addressing Premise.
VB go "that's a classic misunderstanding of 'address.'"
Akin to the person who watches, say, Pulp Fiction and thinks that just because they don't see it's premise, it doesn't have one.
VB go "...and I've replied to you there too."
JCL go "err, no..."
... I'm saying that Premise can be there, but the Sim priority doesn't attempt to address it, because Sim players place The Fiction above individual people desires like addressing Premise.
I'll respond over there, though.