thread: 2005-03-23 : Strong Stuff Indeed
On 2005-03-25, John Kim wrote:
Vincent: I dunno. Look at what's on your character sheet, and think back to the last time you rolled on it or got a modifier for it. Is there anything you've never used?
Well, my original question was about "participation"—but now you seem to have reduced this to only die rolls. Given that, yes, there is plenty I haven't used for the purpose of die rolls. My Buffy RPG character sheet has Dot's name on it and some description. These have contributed to my participation in the game, but I haven't rolled on her name or gotten a die roll modifier for it. I also have some drawbacks like "Honorable to Friends" and "Adversary: Vampires". The same applies to them.
But by this you're implying that the only way to participate in the game is through die rolls or modifiers to die rolls. For example, if I am at physically a game but don't make die rolls, then by definition I have contributed nothing. I don't agree with that.
A character sheet is a piece within an artistic work. It can and should have color. The color may include fancy borders or a character portrait. It can also include descriptive words—whether these are freeform prose or structured labels according to the game. A good example from My Life With Master: The master has a number of attributes (Aspect, Need, Want, Type) which have no bearing on the mechanics of the game, but add plenty of color to it.
The same thing applies to plenty of other mechanics. Here's a good example: in one of my Champions games, a character ("Farslayer") was a telepath who among other powers had the power to kill virtually anyone in the world by remote mental attack. I don't have the character sheet anymore, but it was statted out. He never actually used it. So by your view it was pointless. But I contend that it was FAR from meaningless. Quite the opposite. That he was constantly not using it was extremely meaningful.
This is exactly the problem that I have with your approach to meaning. It seems to me that your approach reduces "meaning" to some kind of numeric counter. i.e. Unless there is a "meaning bonus" or "meaning rolls", then you dismiss it as just simulation which has no meaning. I don't find that at all. I find that extremely meaningful stuff happens even if (especially if) a player is just doing what she thinks her character would, and the group decides what happens based on what they think should logically happen.
Chris: I've been using the term "markers" to refer to mechanics that allow players to indicate to the GM what they want play to be about...
I see what you're saying, but I disagree that the games you cite are empty of markers. D&D is actually a fairly focussed game, in my opinion. It makes no claim to be Soap Opera—that's why it doesn't have any Soap Opera traits and its dumb to judge it as such. It's designed as a tactical system. On the other hand, other systems certainly do have drama markers. In 1981, Champions brought in the idea of having the player mechanically specify enemies to fight (via the "Hunted" disadvantage), what his attachments for subplots are (via the "Dependent NPC" disad), and what his other weaknesses are. The rules encourage pushing these. i.e. So if I take "Code vs Killing", then the GM is encouraged to have situations where it would really help to kill someone but I can't.
I'm not saying that Champions is perfect by any means, but it certainly has markers. I think Champions is at least as structured and focused as The Riddle of Steel is. That is, if I just have my players put together a bunch of Champions characters—and I also have them make a bunch of TROS characters—I think it is much clearer how to create an adventure for the Champions PCs. Roll on the Hunteds and DNPCs, mix it up a little, and the adventure is straightforward. There are other focused games, like D&D, My Life With Master, and Dogs in the Vineyard.
I've only played Storyteller a few times, and they haven't been great, so I hesitate a little to defend it. But from my readings, it seems like they have plenty of markers for politics. Each character is required to choose a clan or such—and often several other choices—which places her on a side in the political game. There are many well-defined positions (i.e. Whip, Sheriff, Harpy, Seneschal, etc.) within the hierarchy. On the personal side, there is Nature and Demeanor. As I recall Vampire, there are three moral traits in addition to Humanity.
