thread: 2006-05-17 : Six straightforward examples
On 2006-05-17, Charles S wrote:
Vincent,
Am I reading this correctly that in your view push and pull apply to the four drama examples, and that the Fate examples are mostly there for comparison?
Because FitM doesn't feel like pull to me, but both of the DitM examples do feel like pull to me (although the group poll style feels strange because of the unfamiliar mechanic, it is definitely recognizable as a formalization of a certain style of informal interaction).
Actual DitM (group poll) is interesting, because it is pull from the acting player to the group, but it is push from the group to the player whose character goes off the roof. The first player solicits the group, the group asserts its authority and both players accept that authority.
I do think that DitM is pull, but I think that all of your examples are still very pushy, as they all involve one player trying to assert authority. The phrasing is important here, so saying "I throw you off the roof," is an assertion of authority, even if you don't actually have that authority (the right to have made that happen).
Also, unless the other player (or the group) has the right to respond by saying, "No, I think you take me out for coffee instead," then you have at least engaged in the push of "I try to throw you off the roof, deal with it," while you may be engaging in the pull of "so what happens next?" at the same time depending on the mechanics used.
This makes KS go "Yes!"
Particularly the last two paragraphs; I'm still thinking hard about DitM/FitM stuff.
This makes WMW go "Remember, this whole conversation"
is predicated on p/p being attached to resolution. Sounds to me like you're still negotiating stakes.
This makes CS go "Agreed"
But if stakes negotiation is pushy (p/p is multi-level), then even a resolution involving pull can still feel pushy. If you didn't want to be in the fight in the first place, then you are less likely to view the invitation to decide whether the next punch lands as an invitation rather than a summons.
