thread: 2006-05-17 : Six straightforward examples

On 2006-05-18, Ben Lehman wrote:

procedurally identical

I think that this is really important.  If Push/Pull is about how we feel about the fiction, rather than how we are interacting as characters, then it doesn't have a lot of use.  It's just "fiction that makes me feel comfortable" versus "fiction which makes me feel uncomfortable."

Consider Breaking the Ice: "I do a wind-kick and it totally smashes your jaw.  Do I get a dice?"  You can't negate that.  You have no systematic recourse to stop me from breaking your jaw with my wind kick.  You can decide whether or not I get a dice.  Mo sez: Pull.  Why?  Because with respect to what matters, you're deciding whether or not what I said has value.


P.S.  Also, now I want to play Breaking the Ice: Street Fighter.


This makes BL go "As PLAYERS"
How we are interacting as PLAYERS. Not characters. god-damnit.

This makes JCL go "Mo says Pull?"
I think her original Breaking The Ice example is questionable, which is why I offered my own definitions of Push/Pull. But I don't think this is Pull by the most recent definition Mo posted. Her definition is about how player interact to change the fiction: by saying either "what if we did this?" (Pull) or "we're doing THIS, goddammit" (Push).

This makes Chris go "BTI: Streetfighter"
is currently a common theme amongst manga right now. Of course, we can look back to Ranma 1/2 & Inuyasha as older examples.

This makes BL go "Eye on the Ball"
With respect to what matters. I can find a Push in any interaction at all, ever. We need to pay attention to what actually matters.

This makes JCL go "What Really Matters..."
... varies from person to person and group to group, which is why everyone is having trouble reaching agreement. Everything's too vague.

This makes BL go "JCL -- Exactly"
This is why we have mechanical elements -- to get everyone on the same page about what really matters. For instance, in Breaking the Ice, it doesn't matter whether your jaw is broken or not. The only thing that matters is whether this couple gets together and how. And you have enormous control over that as the Guide.

This makes ecb go "There does seem to be a line.."
..that needs to be crossed. What you're saying has to be about an element you don't control. Push about your own character is just blah-di-blah. The idea of Push and Pull both become relevant when you venture into someone else's territory.

This makes BL go "Em -- yeah"
Bookmark to have that conversation somewhere less awkward than Marginalia?

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This reminds KM of My stab at what matters...