thread: 2006-09-08 : Salvation, damnation, justification, a la Sydney
On 2006-09-11, Sydney Freedberg wrote:
Emily, "religions are a human technology" - YES! Which means we don't get to handwave and say "oh, all points of view are equally valid, only you know what's true for you," we should actually start to make comparisons and value judgments about what works and what doesn't. I say "start" because our current understanding of the principles underlying this "technology" is pretty primitive: We're like medieval farmers who know what to plant, when, and where in our familiar micro-climate, but don't know anything about underlying principles like nitrogen balance in the soil or the dangers of monoculture.
Vincent: I asked God to bring me to a surer knowledge of Him and to strengthen me against temptation, and I expected Him to keep faith with me, that's all....I imagine that C.S. Lewis would say, and I imagine you'd agree with him too, that having heard my sincere prayer to be brought to a more sure knowledge of Him, God would lead me out of my false beliefs and into truer ones....
Vincent, I don't know. I really don't. My life of prayer is a weak and fragile thing, and while I'm willing to take on explaining theological theory, I'm no master of spiritual practice.
In terms of tangible results, for what it's worth, you're not a Mormon anymore. As I've stated earlier, based on my admittedly limited knowledge of that tradition, I strongly suspect Mormonism starts with false factual premises (about the pre-Columbian history of the Americas, that there was additional post-Resurrection appearance of Jesus in the Americas, about the origin of the Golden Plates) and proceeds to problematic moral / spiritual / ethical conclusions. To the Mormons reading this thread, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful, but I honestly think you're wrong, and in the context of this discussion I owe you my honest assessment.
It certainly sounds like Vincent, personally, is better off not being a Mormon. Where he goes from here is up to him. He's being thoughtful and taking this seriously; he's willing to engage seriously with me and to lots of other reasonably well-informed people; and he's not trying to kit-bash his own religion of reinvented wheels based on grabbing what looks cool without proper study and reflection. I believe in Vinent, and I have faith in his choices, whatever they turn out to me.
As for prayer in general, I trust my limited understanding far enough to say this one thing:
We don't pray to God because He doesn't already know what we need, better than we know ourselves. I pray for the same reason I used to lift weights—to make myself stronger, more disciplined, more clear about what I can do and what I need to do. I pray not because God will give or withhold based on whether or how I ask, but because my own ability to receive what God is already offering will grow.
