2006-03-09 : Those things in The Dragon Killer
I need suggestions for a collective name for those things in The Dragon Killer. These things:
The King of Death
The Old Spider
The Queen of Deer
The King Raven
The Kind Man
The Mud Eater
The Wind's Daughter
The Ivy Boy
The Dragon
I need to be able to say "the GM's ___ is always the Dragon Killer, nobody's ___ is the Dragon, but the ___ you choose as a player might be the Old Spider, the Queen of Deer, or any of the others."
They aren't "gods." I've been calling them "powers" but I don't like that. J calls them "monsters" but that can't be the real term. Definitely not "archetypes." I don't want to call them anything ending with "ones" - "the first ones," "the eternal ones" - unless it's absolutely perfect.
Suggestions please!
1. On 2006-03-09, Roger said:
"Trumps" is too Amberesque.
"Arcana" is probably too pretentious.
"Royals" or "Nobles" might fit.
"Aspects" I kinda like.
2. On 2006-03-09, Vincent said:
In the document I'm writing now I'm calling them worldthingies.
I also need a name for the peoplethingies:
The Ancestors
The Fields
The Hearth
The Sword
The Wilds
Every NPC gets associated with, or is a representative of, one of the five peoplethingies.
3. On 2006-03-09, Clinton R. Nixon said:
"Tutelary" is totally esoteric, but by definition, very correct. I like "custodian," but I know a lot of people won't get why.
The Dutch word "engod" is awesome.
What about "Faces"?
"the GM's Face is always the Dragon Killer, nobody's Face is the Dragon, but the Face you choose as a player might be the Old Spider, the Queen of Deer, or any of the others."
Or "Masks"?
"the GM's Mask is always the Dragon Killer, nobody's Mask is the Dragon, but the Mask you choose as a player might be the Old Spider, the Queen of Deer, or any of the others."
4. On 2006-03-09, John Harper said:
"Face" is very nice.
For the NPCs, you could use "Hand."
"Oliver the farmer is the Hand of The Fields. Hester the soldier is the Hand of The Sword. Julius the oracle is the Hand of The Ancestors."
5. On 2006-03-09, Shreyas said:
I also like the Face/Hand metaphor.
This makes...
S?? go "Ditto"
6. On 2006-03-09, Kaare Berg said:
Aesir and Vanir are two terms you might use.
I'm fond of Aesir.
But vanir might fit better.
This reminds...
KSB of Linkiated
7. On 2006-03-09, Lisa Padol said:
Cartouche?
Domain?
Road map?
Angel? Check Hitherby Dragons for possibilities. Ants Without Antennae? Wogglies?
8. On 2006-03-09, DevP said:
Anchor? Shield? Heart?
For the peoplethingies: Roots?
9. On 2006-03-09, Meguey said:
Ley.
"the GM's Ley is always the Dragon Killer, nobody's Ley is the Dragon, but the Ley you choose as a player might be the Old Spider, the Queen of Deer, or any of the others."
This makes...
LP go "I like."
10. On 2006-03-09, gains said:
Signs for world.
Marks for people.
That's with about 6.5 sec. of thought, so . . . probably suck.
11. On 2006-03-09, Julie, aka jrs said:
For the worldthingies, I instantly thought of "motif"—as in Stith Thompson's index of folk tale motifs. I also like Clinton's suggestion for "mask".
I don't know enough about the peoplethingies to offer a suggestion. "Realm" seems static, but could be exactly right.
12. On 2006-03-09, Larry Lade said:
Sovereigns?
13. On 2006-03-09, Vincent said:
Realms is okay for the peoplethingies, but maybe something else is perfecter.
I like Leys for the worldthingies, except that I LOVE the phrase "the Dragon's blood is ley."
14. On 2006-03-09, Troy_Costisick said:
Avatars
Ascendants
Plagues
All Mighty
Ashtoreth
Beatified
Primal Force
Absolute
Hallowed
Just a few I could think of. :)
Peace,
-Troy
15. On 2006-03-09, Ninja Monkey J said:
Boogiemen.
What do they do in this incarnation of the game?
Grendel is a Son of Cain, but that's because the story's being told to the newly-Christian.
Likewise, Angels, Angleos, Ashtoreth, or anything else Hebrew- or Greek-derived isn't right. Certainly not Avatars.
Natures?
Something ironic and I-don't-want-to-say-it ish?
The Great Lords
Gentlemen
The Wood and Stone (no iron, no bone, see?)
Bloodless (I like this one! It's because they're not people or animals!)
Under-the-Hills-Over-the-Sky
House
Great Kings
16. On 2006-03-09, Julie, aka jrs said:
Back again to offer "token" for the worldthingies.
17. On 2006-03-09, tonyd said:
How about:
Archons, angels, thrones, dominions, epochs
18. On 2006-03-09, Dave said:
If this were Hatian instead of nordic, it would be easy to call them loa [Wikipedia]
This makes...
DEVP go "I totally dig on loa. I think it's right."
19. On 2006-03-09, Kevin Wilson said:
Well I kind of like Fear as in Fear the Lord God kind of thing. Another one that just came to me is Truth, guiding truths.
"the GM's Fear is always the Dragon Killer, nobody's Fear is the Dragon, but the Fear you choose as a player might be the Old Spider, the Queen of Deer, or any of the others."
"the GM's Truth is always the Dragon Killer, nobody's Truth is the Dragon, but the Truth you choose as a player might be the Old Spider, the Queen of Deer, or any of the others."
20. On 2006-03-09, Dave said:
or can you use an adjective, like Bound:
"the GM is always Bound to the Dragon Killer, nobody's Bound to the Dragon, but as a player you might choose to be Bound to the Old Spider,..."
21. On 2006-03-09, Chris said:
How about Logos?
It means word/law/truth, and aren't the people playing using words to establish SIS?
22. On 2006-03-09, John Laviolette said:
Fetch?
I've seen the term "fetch" used in celtic and norse folklore to refer to something that's sort of a cross between totem, Roman genius, and astral form. A spirit-person or spirit-animal that captured the essence of a person and acted as a guardian, mentor, and possibly an omen.
OK, the norse term is actually fylgja, which I've seen translated as "fetch". There's another norse term, hamingja, which is more like a family guardian/lucky spirit. But I figured straight-up norse terms weren't what you want, but something that could be kind of norse, kind of celtic.
23. On 2006-03-09, Tom said:
World Things: Saga, Tale, Offering
People Things: Domain, Banner, Theme
24. On 2006-03-09, Piers said:
> Saga, Tale, Offering
Story?
The GM's story is always that of the Dragonkiller...
Maybe it hedges things in too much.
25. On 2006-03-09, JAK said:
Fourth Wall it a little with "Roles" ?
You can even magick-it out, call it Roules or Rollez or maybe Role in another language...
-Andy
26. On 2006-03-09, Matt Snyder said:
Icon
27. On 2006-03-09, SDL said:
Did anyone say Sigil yet?
I need to be able to say "the GM's Sigil is always the Dragon Killer, nobody's Sigil is the Dragon, but the Sigil you choose as a player might be the Old Spider, the Queen of Deer, or any of the others."
This makes...
SDL go ""Potence" or "Presence", maybe?"
28. On 2006-03-09, ironick said:
Icons?
Visages?
Imago?
29. On 2006-03-09, ironick said:
Damn, icons was already submitted. How about Shadow?
30. On 2006-03-10, Emily Care said:
No loss for suggestions, heh? Here are mine. : )
world: Ley is great, as are Vanir/Aesir, if it was Japanese Kami would be perfect, or there's Wyrd, Moira, Fates, Watchers, Movers, Seidhe, Unseen, Geist, Shade, Shadow, Wraiths, Sovreigns, Elders, Guides, Tricksters, Patterns, Forces.
people: domain or realm would be great, I like roots, then there's Allies, Fields, Traditions, Duties, Essence, Soul, Foundation, Quality, Portion, Legacy, Kindred, Territory, Device, Motif, Figure, Heritage, Wisdom, Lore, Rite, Birthright.
And, I do like Powers for them all.
This makes...
ecb go "cross-posted with Ironick"
31. On 2006-03-10, Ben Lehman said:
Are these things, like, things in the world that are physical, or are they more importantly things that are social groupings?
If social: Path, tradition.
This makes...
BL go "Forms, mysteries"
32. On 2006-03-10, Ninja Monkey J said:
I really think you want to stay away from Greek, Latin, and Hebrew.
"Faoi Cnoc" means "Underhill" in Gaelic. It's also comically unpronouceable.
33. On 2006-03-10, James said:
Mythago.
34. On 2006-03-10, Linnaeus said:
First Ancestor? It kind of fits the Asian theming.
The GM's First Ancestor is always the Dragon Killer, nobody's First Ancestor is the Dragon, but the First Ancestor you choose as a player might be the Old Spider, the Queen of Deer, or any of the others.
35. On 2006-03-10, CarlR said:
Dominion or Spirit? I'd suggest Kami but that's likely too Japanese a flavor, although it carries a nice mix between god and spirit.
Binding or Shadow?
A single word rather than multiple words would be nice, and something uncommon enough that it wouldn't have to be Capitalized White Wolf Style would be nice too. Maybe that's just me.
36. On 2006-03-10, Tris said:
Calling.
Compass.
Geas.
Ruler.
Lord.
Fate.
Owner.
Drive.
Heart.
Destiny.
Gheist.
Partner.
37. On 2006-03-10, Vincent said:
Thanks everybody! Time for me to sift through and consider.
38. On 2006-03-10, DevP said:
Man, this was a great thread for just names of generic stuff.
39. On 2006-03-10, anon. said:
I don't think anyone said "totem," so I hope it's not too late to get that one in under the wire.
40. On 2006-03-10, Vincent said:
TOO LATE! HAhahaha!
Just kidding.
41. On 2006-03-10, Ben Lehman said:
I know I'm stealing out of this thread.
42. On 2006-03-10, Andy K said:
I wish there was a word to signify One Member of a Chorus... oh well.
-Andy
This makes...
ecb go "chorista? : )"
JB go "choir member or soloist."
RC go "Strophe?"
NinJ go "Latin, Latin, French, Latin, and Greek."*
gns go "chorister"
*click in for more
43. On 2006-03-10, Kaitlin BH said:
Linked here from DevP; hope I'm not intruding.
How about "Anima", if you want something Latinate, or "Voice", if you don't? Or, for a more medieval flavor, "Herald"?
Also, since The Dragon Slayer is Tale Type 300, I kind of like the idea of saying "The GM's Type is The Dragon Killer."
Awesome post.
44. On 2006-03-10, Vincent said:
Hey Kaitlin, not intruding a'tall. What's Tale Type 300?
For the peoplethingies I'm considering Werald, "world," but literally "the age of man." I'll want something parallel for the worldthingies, then - and Wyrd and Werald isn't bad.
A few minutes with Google tells me that Wyrd means what's become. The three Norns are Wyrd, Weorthan and Skuld - what's become, what's becoming, what'll yet become.
This reminds...
jrs of Antti Aarne originated tale types
This makes...
NinJ go "Werald is great!"*
JCL go "nit-pick"*
*click in for more
45. On 2006-03-10, Kaitlin BH said:
I think somebody else mentioned the Stith Thompson folktale motif index above; there's also the Aarne-Thompson Tale Type Index, which was intended to catalog and classify all known folktales by "type" (not the most well-defined word ever). It's kind of Eurocentric - I think they have like five variants on Cinderella - but it's still useful and nifty for folklorists like me. I believe wikipedia has an article on Antti Aarne, the guy who's primarily responsible for spreading the idea of tale types.
46. On 2006-03-15, Will said:
Hey Vincent,
In flagrant defiance of your ban on suggested worldthingy names, let me offer Renowned.
The word means literally "twice-named," referring to people who are given one name by their fathers and who then win another named by their deeds.
Best,
Will
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